The question is what are he and his teammates going to do about it?
Tyler Zeller talked with ESPN.com Robbi Pickeral today about the FSU game and leaving the court early.
“There hasn’t been a lot of talking going on the last few days,’’ the senior said. “It’s just been focusing on basketball, trying to get better.”
But Zeller will never forget what it felt like to follow coach Roy Williams and most of the rest of his team off the Tucker Center court and to the locker room with 14.2 seconds left.
“That was the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever done in my life, because it was to the point where I never thought I’d leave a game early because we’d lost by that much, and they were going to storm the floor,’’ Zeller said. “And it was just something I hope to never experience again.”
What you hope for most here is this sentiment is shared by the rest of the Heels and it carries them the rest of the season.
Speaking of the rest of the season, in case you were wondering how Roy Williams’ coached teams did based on the worst loss of each season, wonder no more. David Hess at Team Rankings put together a chart showing the worst loss for each of Roy’s seasons at Kansas and UNC.
It’s fairly rare for one of his teams to lose by more than 20, but when they do, it’s generally a pretty bad sign for their postseason outlook. The teams suffering such a large beatdown have gone on to win 0, 0, 1, 1, and 2 games in the NCAA tournament.
Judging by the best fit line, this most recent loss — if it were the only thing we knew about the Tar Heels – seems to point towards a mere one win in the NCAA tournament.
However, once the tournament rolls around, we’ll also know UNC’s seed. The five previous teams that lost by more than 20 were seeded only #2, #4, #8, and missed the tournament twice (the two zero-win years). That means they underperformed slightly in the tournament, since we would have expected them to win 5 or 6 games, but they only won 4.
This is the fourth time a Roy Williams team has lost a game by more than 30 points. In 2000, his Kansas team lost by 33 to Oklahoma St., ended up a #8 seed in the NCAA Tournament and lost in the 2nd Round to Duke. In 2001 it was a 31 point loss to Wake Forest. Kansas was ultimately a #4 seed and lost in the Sweet Sixteen. UNC did not make the tournament in 2010 after the 32 point loss to Duke.
We will see how this season turns out but the statistics certainly don’t paint a favorable picture.
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Dulkys is 0-2 with ZERO points well into the second half.
Of course he is.
also, of all people, Zeller is by far the last person who should be embarrassed by the game on Saturday.
Based on his play and hustle, he’s the only one who shouldn’t be embarrassed.
Big ups to Z for being honest and not just spouting mealy-mouthed coach-speak cliches that so many athletes seem to be confined to.
Danny Green, Brendan Haywood, Sheed…those were honest, straight up guys who spoke their minds freely…more of that is always welcome.
^a senior, speaking up.
just started watching Md/FSU online…i dont see the Seminoles running double screens, and i do see Terps picking up a step or two outside the arc.
30 minutes in, Dulkys has 5 FGA. he had 5 FGA 7 minutes and change in against us.
James had 5 FGA vs us and has 12 now. its almost like theyre playing specifically with the opponent in mind!
huh. imagine that.
a team specifically exploited our top weakness, and another team, a team that isnt very good, manages to guard.
i mustve missed the Rod Serling intro…
This is just too painful.
Looking at that chart you can’t walk away without being impressed by Coach Williams.
Regarding the loss by X points, I’d be more concerned by the number of wins versus losses at the end of the season. That’s the measure we need to be concerned with, not the margin. Not that anyone is happy but if they win out, what do you say? If they lose another three games? Just when and where do you draw the line?
Don’t ever play past the next game. You can’t look past a game that hasn’t been played yet.
“Looking at that chart you can’t walk away without being impressed by Coach Williams.”
I was thinking the same thing.
A #1 or #2 seed in 14 of Roy’s 21 NCAAT’s. (67%)
As tempting as it is to latch onto the trends of never having done…whatever….with a 33-point loss, this might be as good a year as any, with this group of Heels, to see those trends being bucked.
FSU went after MD on the interior which is why Duklys didn’t do much.
FSU at Duke on Saturday just got a lot more interesting.
^exactly. FSU didnt want to have to do that vs us because it wasnt good odds.
and we obliged!
Not only is Zeller, he(and I guess Watts as well) is the bridge between 2009 and now. They have seen what it takes to win a title.
Three Tar Heels on the Midseason Wooden Awards 25.
Marshall, Barnes, and Henson.
http://www.woodenaward.com/
Agree Zee played well at FSU. Wished he went aggressively for the jam. Stop tapping at the rebound, grab it, and jam it. Impatiently waiting for next game. Go Heels!
Active board tonight, sadly I’m working. Should have put the 4 DS3 lines to work for me on ESPN3 and see how it compares to my cable modem.
New laptop 2.67 GHz, Solid State Disk, 8GB RAM, not sure about the video processor. Video quality is great but it still hangs the video and I get sound only. WTH? As always the commercials play perfectly.
If the rest of the players share Z’s sentiment and that fuels a determination in them to never feel like that again, then I don’t think that margin of loss statistic is going to mean much.
“Three Tar Heels on the Midseason Wooden Awards 25.
Marshall, Barnes, and Henson.”
For that award, Barnes would have to step into a phone booth and come out with a cape on for the rest of the year.
Here is Andy Katz’s mid-Jan. rundown on the POY race:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/7471475/john-wooden-player-year-nominees-men-college-basketball
^I strongly disagree with his analysis of Davis over Henson. If I am not mistaken, opponents still have a lower field goal percentage against Henson. Unfortunately, no player on a team which loses by 33 should be a Wooden Award winner.
Of course, tiny head monobrow just had a great game against Arkansas.
^I would agree with Henson over Davis, not sure I would put the 33 point loss on an individual. That brow is pretty impressive, even better are the t-shirts. Gotta Google that shirt via images.
I got three passports, couple of visas, don’t even know my real name, sleep in the daytime, work in the night time…this ain’t not party. We can post on this until dawn, I’m certain of it.
” That’s the measure we need to be concerned with, not the margin. Not that anyone is happy but if they win out, what do you say? If they lose another three games? Just when and where do you draw the line?”
whew-thank God, because I was ready to throw in the towel.
btw bblb-did you see TH’s when they came to Carmichael…wayy back?
It wasn’t a Roy Williams-coached team, but ESPN points out that, “The 1993 Tar Heels were pasted 88-62 at Wake Forest on Jan. 30 that season (and then lost their next game 81-67 at Duke) before going on to win the national title.”
So stranger things have happened.
http://espn.go.com/blog/north-carolina-basketball/post/_/id/3711/numbers-to-know-champion-blowouts
^^ blueheel…I’ll say this until I’m blue in the face, but those previous blowouts you and others reference were to teams WAY superior to this year’s Seminole squad.
Apples and pineapples, broham.
Although I agree the beat down does not bode well for our NC hopes, this team is somewhat unique with respect to the other 30+ losers. UNC is one of the best teams in the country when they play focused, intense basketball. Unlike those other teams, their ceiling is probably #1 in the country…IF they play to potential. So they really have a great chance of bucking the trend (if you can really call that a trend).
Faustus1500 : Hes gonna have a tough time being better than Tywon Lawson. Ty has moved himself up into the second tier of PGs in the west. First tier is Nash, Kidd, and Westbrook. After that is Tywon.
Harrison will also have a tough time being better than Ty was at UNC…
chill.
It’s got nothing to do with anybody’s mama.
My point was that the attitude and demeanor of Barnes and Forte at this point in their careers seems eerily similar, and I’m hoping that this season doesn’t end the way that one did.
40=40.
Okay, I just went ahead and removed multiple comments stemming from the whole Joe Forte-Harrison Barnes comparison since it was clear that was heading down the wrong path in a hurry.
Please keep it on the road. Thanks.
getting back to basketball.
FSU did what they intended to do vs us. and they did what they intended to do vs Maryland.
so, unless we plan on being Maryland, it was my understanding that you imposed your will on your opponent. you took away what they want to do.
Player: “coach, theyre all over us out there on the perimeter. it isnt working like you said. the best looks are our bigs, but they are having a tough time against Zeller and Henson.”
Coach: “Oh, crap.”
I’m worried that the little insect Stoglin is going to put up FORTAY points on the Heels, based on what I saw last night (and last year).
I’d like to see street-clothes Jackie Manuel check him, tho.
To All: I apologize for responding to the pointed stick. I like to remain above that type of emotional rejoinder. I am old school and that pushed a button that can sometimes cause a negative response. Again, my apologies!
FSU 84 Maryland 70.
Different game with different focus and much better perimeter defense.
FSU/DUniv on Saturday in Durham. If FSU wins that one, it will be quite interesting. Clearly the new ACC season is going to continue to provide plenty of surprises.
A lamented aspect of intra-conference play has always been that losses or close games against lower or non ranked teams will hurt more than a similar game against non conference opposition.
Plenty of stuff to play for this season.
Here’s another NCAA thought process at it’s best:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/01/18/1786178/ncaa-official-says-coaches-dont.html
Venue security is expected to avoid end of game issues. Next time you are at a game, take a look at the security force. They are going to control a crowd of 12,100, the official attendance at FSU/UNC game? Not the way they do it now.
In European football it is a different story as riots and fights frequently lead to severe injury and death. This often occurs outside of venues, but it also happens in the stands and has occurred on the field involving players and coaching staff. Their security is a couple orders of magnitude better than a college basketball game.
You know what else people haven’t mentioned? That they serve alcohol at the Tucker Civic Center since it is an off campus venue.
That is just perfect. Especially when you combine 12,100 fans.
The average attendance at FSU games has been 10% of that this year.
So security was locked down tight for the game. Not!
Fortunately nothing serious was reported happening afterwards.
^^what could possibly go wrong?!
wonder if they did at the Orleans Arena in Vegas. i’m gonna say yes. if what happened there doesnt happen, its probably not on Roy’s mind to leave the court early.
OR they could of just played basketball and not lost by 33 and there would of been no problem what so ever..
^I believed they stopped serving halfway through the second half of the last game at Orleans. Unfortunately, servers would come and take your drink orders fairly often the older UNLV grads sitting by me we really soused.
Commenting on the refreshment policies of places you play at has not been a common theme in college athletics.
Maybe there should be a no alcohol policy at College basketball games. Unfortunately, abroad lots of the problems occur when drinking before and after games is combined with fan behavior.
Ok - here is something that we can maybe take comfort in. This is the same starting 5 that went to the Elite 8 last year. If you look at the teams at KU that had 20+ point losses and then exited the NCAAT early none of them had advanced very far in the NCAAT the previous year either. As for the 2010 UNC team, well we all know how young and inexperienced that team was. So maybe there is reason to believe this team can buck the trend.
Tar Heel Fan makes a good point on the beer sales. They do serve beer… and lots of it. While I haven’t seen many alcohol-related incidents, it’s another reason why leaving the court was a good idea. That being said, it is interesting to note that while the seats are largely filled for UNC and the crowd is enthusiastic, when Duke, Florida or Miami shows up it gets a lot nastier.
850 makes a good point that should guide our expectations:
This is a team that was a few KY three pointers (sound familiar?) from making it to the final 4 last year.
This year’s team has the exact same starting lineup, in a weaker national and conference scene.
In addition, this year’s team has two heralded recruits, plus a healthy Reggie Bullock.
Ergo, why my expectation is that anything less than a Final Four visit (not win, but visit) is a clear underachievement.
…Unless you think that Justin Knox and Leslie MacDonald are that much of a game-changer, and that their absence is more of a detriment than the addition of Bullock, McAdoo, Hairston, and another year of experience should be a positive.
^^^Yeah, as far as I’m concerned there’s way too much to like about this team, its potential, and how far they got last year, to have that one game undermine everything. And they really haven’t reached but maybe 65-70% of that potential, at best, this season.
And I’m not looking for any one game, like the next game in Blacksburg where they maybe come out like gangbusters or banshees, to signal a big turnaround. I’d rather have consistent energy and execution, followed by positive results, to help build up a sustained momentum and confidence…..and save the barn burners for Durham and the last game in Chapel Hill.
winning Thursday will mean very little. even winning big.
its the game 5 or 6 from now. or 9 or 10.
there simply cant be any complacency allowed. the lesson has to be learned, taken to heart, and ingrained.
“I believed they stopped serving halfway through the second half of the last game at Orleans. Unfortunately, servers would come and take your drink orders fairly often the older UNLV grads sitting by me we really soused.”
faustus: didn’t you say you were also at the Ill/OSU game as well? pardon my curiosity but how is it that you are able to hop-scotch games in such a way?
he’s Karl Hess!
Big Game,
I live and work in Central Illinois. I have Illinois season tickets. It is interesting comparing and contrasting both teams and their issues. I usually try to go watch UNC at least once a season. Last year, outside of the Illinois game I had tickets to see UNC play Evansville and at home vs. State.
cool-I bet Champaign was rocking that night. I got to watch that upset of OSU with a (fatalistic) Illini friend at a sports bar (UNC was having an easy time of it that night). Apparently, being an Illini fan is in League with being a Cubs fan as well-IE, fatalistic. Ill definitely has some athletes..not too sure about their hoops IQ though. “Issues” is right…2 out of the 3 “Dean Wormer” quote about covers these two teams.
I’ve tried to refrain from commenting on this loss, but I’m really not gonna be able to! As a life long fan I can be harsh towards this team. I’m not gonna sit and defend this team like some people and say oh its only 1 game! Bull@#$%!! NO TEAM that is supposedly a final four fav to make it EVER has lost like this! Look it up! Championship teams/players DNA wont allow this to happen. This team hasn’t even looked this good vs much more inferior teams this year, let alone 33 points better! I saw a stat from Sat that said the other 4 top 25 teams that lost on Sat lost by a total of 34 points! No team that is supposed to be this good loses to anybody by 30+ pts period! not one guy showed any heart, pride or nothin on or off the court during the game! The 1st road conf game and this was the effort? This team has won NOTHING yet, but seem at times to assume hey we will win b/c we are UNC! Its time Roy stop making excuses and force guys to earn the right to be on the court! Enough 4 at a time subs just to be doin it…its time for this team to man up or lay down! enough talk of we came back to do this and that! JUST DO IT!
I think the team just panicked when the 2nd half started the way it did. FSU had played poorly at the end of the 1st half and we had made it an easily manageable 8 point defecit.
Open the 2nd half giving up I think a 15-2 run (something like that) and they just got shell shocked. Correct me if I’m wrong, but with the exception of GT last year, this team has never been down 20 at any point.
First road conference game and first road game in nearly a month, matched with a talented opponent who was out for blood (we punked them in games last year, including a curb-stomping at Chapel Hill) and the required “Guard who’s in a slump” breakout and we just simply panicked. Add the whole “3rd conference game” thing in for good measure
Matter of everything that could go wrong did and it scared the team when the 2nd half went the way it did. I’m sure we’ll see a sense of urgency in the team. If we don’t, there will be deeper issues.
College BBall podcast on espn with Gottlieb and Katz talked some about it: Shocked that I seemed to agree with Gottlieb on most points. He wasn’t nearly as concerned as Katz was.