Despite plenty to chew on in a 42-page notice of allegations from the NCAA, the University of North Carolina avoided the scarlet letter(s) of NCAA violations, lack of institutional control. Although ABCers and many national media types who have not followed this story from the beginning have been bloviating about how UNC escaped LOIC given the egregiousness of the charges, there are a couple of clear-cut instances that can be pointed to as why the NCAA chose not to level the most serious of accusations against Carolina.
As a primer to what is, and is not, considered LOIC, take a few minutes to scan this document that indicates the “principles of institutional control as prepared by the NCAA Committee on Infractions”. Key in that piece is the following:
VIOLATIONS THAT DO NOT RESULT FROM A LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.
An institution cannot be expected to control the actions of every individual who is in some way connected with its athletics program. The deliberate or inadvertent violation of a rule by an individual who is not in charge of compliance with rules that are violated will not be considered to be due to a lack of institutional control:
• if adequate compliance measures exist;
• if they are appropriately conveyed to those who need to be aware of them;
• if they are monitored to ensure that such measures are being followed; and
• if, on learning that a violation has occurred, the institution takes swift action
With that in mind, here are a few specific reasons I suspect UNC did not receive a lack of institutional control charge:
1. UNC has a long history of NCAA compliance.
UNC’s last - and only - major NCAA violation was over 50 years ago in a basketball point-shaving scandal that affected a number of schools.[THF: As was pointed out by reader Blue Parrot, UNC's only major violation was tied to recruiting by Frank McGuire as noted in the NCAA's database. However, the point shaving scandal is often cited as the violation UNC committed. The NCAA database does not reference that scandal at all. Oh and if you want to tweak any NCSU fans who give you crap, tell them to do a search on their school on the database. Fun stuff there. Carry on.] Carolina’s athletics compliance department has been recognized by the NCAA for its excellence in compliance. Clearly the NCAA felt that adequate compliance measures exist.
This contrasts sharply with say, USC, which had simultaneous major violations going on in football and basketball, or with Ohio State, in which the NCAA said the compliance office had not properly educated players. Oh, and Ohio State has had 375 secondary violations in recent years and a major infraction in basketball in the last decade and even they did not get LOIC in their football mess (so far).
2. UNC acted properly in regards to Jennifer Wiley
When it became clear that Wiley was getting too cozy with players, she was removed from the academic support center. Also, according to the notice of allegations, she was notified by letter from UNC as to what sort of contact was permissible with players when she was no longer employed by UNC. If she was properly notified about regulations (and the NCAA seems to feel she was), then violations on her part are beyond the scope of institutional control (AKA the “rogue tutor” defense).
Of course there is the matter of Wiley’s personal employment by Butch Davis, but given the scrutiny and detail of the allegations that were made against Wiley, it seems safe to assume that the NCAA looked at that and found nothing improper.
3. UNC was proactive, cooperating with the NCAA and withholding players
This would certainly qualify as “swift action” as proscribed in the NCAA guidelines. UNC threw the doors wide open to the NCAA, going so far as telling Robert Quinn to hand over his cell phone. UNC also withheld players until they received the green light from the NCAA. It has been argued that UNC sunk the 2010 football season by holding players out, as opposed to Auburn and Ohio State, which played their athletes in question and dealt with the consequences (or lack thereof) later.
These actions, as much as any, may have kept UNC out of LOIC trouble.
4. John Blake was vetted by UNC but apparently was lying to everybody.
Two often-forgotten facts as everyone seeks to pile on UNC and Butch Davis for hiring Blake in the first place are that A) UNC sought clearance from the NCAA before hiring Blake and B) Blake lied on his employment records to hide his association with Gary Wichard.
When Blake was first hired at UNC, the school made a request of the NCAA as to whether or not he had any red flags and the NCAA replied he did not. Whether or not the request or response were perfunctory, it demonstrates a compliance procedure in place, which is key in determining LOIC.
There has been much discussion about the “rogue coach” clause of the NCAA, which is described as this:
If the head coach sets a proper tone of compliance and monitors the activities of all assistant coaches in the sport, the head coach cannot be charged with the secretive activities of an assistant bent on violating NCAA rules.
Blake lied to UNC about his relationship with Wichard from the day he was hired right up to his final interview with the school and the enforcement staff after this all came down. In addition, UNC apparently had policies in place for coaches to report outside income and the NCAA maintains Blake’s money transfers from Wichard should have been reported but were not. It is easy to see how it could be interpreted that UNC had procedures in place but Blake’s pattern of misleading behavior over a number of years fits this section.
5. The academic issues and improper benefits are considered self-reported by the NCAA.
Again, this is where UNC’s cooperation with the NCAA comes into play. I think it is safe to say much of what was revealed in this investigation was discovered jointly, but UNC’s willingness to dig into what was going on and work with the NCAA resulted in the offenses dealing directly with players being called self-reported.
In the end, ABCers want LOIC attached to Carolina as payback for something from two decades ago, and local and national talking heads expected it because of the nature of the offenses. But looking at the NCAA’s own criteria for LOIC, it makes sense why that charge was not leveled at UNC - there were appropriate compliance policies and procedures in place and the university took swift action when presented with violations.
UNC still faces a stiff charge of “failure to monitor”, which I tweeted was like being charged with manslaughter instead of murder. But I think it is telling that none of the three areas cited under the FTM have to do with Wiley, Blake, or the improper benefits other than Chris Hawkins, who the NCAA apparently hates more than Osama bin Laden. Academic fraud, agent runners, and improper benefits would most likely draw the severest of sanctions when UNC reaches the penalty phase, but none of those were included in the FTM (again save Hawkins). Either way, this story is a long way from over and the fireworks will start again towards the end of the year with the NCAA hearing and penalty phase yet to come.
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I think the old-time NCAA sanctions that affected basketball were a result of Frank McGuires’s recruiting practices. The point-shaving scandal was a separate issue — serious, but IIRC not written up as part of the NCAA sanctions.
BP
best estimate what type of punishment do u expect the NCAA to hand out to UNC?
“UNC’s last – and only – major NCAA violation was over 50 years ago”
A fifty year spotless record ruined in order to win 8 football games each year. Was it worth it?
I used to feel so much pride when national commentators would say that “At UNC they not only win, they win the right way”. We’ll never hear that again. Was it worth it?
Correction has been noted in the post.
The penalty talk has centered on loss of scholarships, probation and probably vacating wins from at least 2009 but possibly 2008 and 2010. UNC was said to have used an ineligible player in 2008 and 2009 and another in 2009 and 2010. The first one is Michael McAdoo. That and the fact some of Greg Little’s indiscretions extend back to April, 2008 means the 2008 and 2009 seasons are probably going to be wiped. The 2009 and 2010 ineligible player is not known so there is no way of figuring out how many games they played. It should be noted that the only two players the NCAA took action against were McAdoo and Ramsay. Both were made permanently ineligible but Ramsay got his eligibility restored. It is possible Ramsay is the second play and since the NCAA has already said they would not vacate wins in which he played, 2010 is probably safe.
Oh back to Greg Little for a moment. His crap came within a hair of creating problems for the basketball team in 2008. His violations start in April of 2008 a mere six weeks after he stopped playing basketball.
Not worth it at all.
Mandel’s piece is exactly the sort of thing we’ll be dealing with for awhile. It takes a special sort of myopia to suggest that a school that sat anyone and everyone with even the slightest questions about their eligibility is somehow worse than OSU, which deliberately used players that Tressel knew were ineligible, or USC, who basically extended a big middle finger to the NCAA during the entirety of their investigation.
How a national columnist can attend an NCAA seminar on compliance and not understand that the compliance effort means far more to the NCAA than the actual dollar value or volume of transgressions blows me away.
But sins were committed. A price will be paid.
And to repeat, no, it wasn’t worth it.
I will say that Mandel’s piece was sort of sensationalistic in my opinion. He focuses on the sheer number of allegations against UNC (nine) without highlighting that just two people (Blake and Whiley) were responsible for six of them. I also was angry to see these two nuggets from Mandel’s piece:
1- “its tutors who not only wrote papers’ players but helped pay their parking tickets”
Tutors plural? As in more then one? Wrong.
And then this one:
2- “As was reported in bits and pieces last summer, the Chapel Hill campus was apparently crawling with cash-wielding runners for agents”
Two: Blake and Hawkins. That is how many runners the campus was “crawling with”. Two.
Unfortunately the rest of his article is accurate and probably fair.
Yeah, Mandel’s article is a load of bull. The only thing you need to read in it is his statement that Tressel made one huge mistake that cost him his job. First of all, Tressel didn’t make a mistake. A mistake implies an accident or doing something wrong unwittingly. Tressel’s “one mistake” was lying like a dog (sort of like Blake) to anyone who would listen.
I agree that it wasn’t worth it-in the short term. But if lessons learned means the football program will be “clean” for the next 50 years then the long-term worth will be greater.
Our basketball program survived past violations to be a perennial power with an almost spotless record of not even minor violations. The football program can and should do likewise.
Go Heels!!
So now our response is “hey were not as bad as USC and OSU.. At least those schools actually won something when they cheated.
If this happened at state, we would be burying them, not saying welp its not as bad as Ohio State…
UNC RAJ -
The best we can hope for is that the despoiling of our reputation will not spill over to teams other than football.
I think what’s needed, but unlikely to come about, is a change in the on-campus culture. Specifically, we need to start treating football players as we treat other students: You can have all the fun people normally have at that age (i.e., quite a bit), but you’ll be expected to produce academically and to forget about being treated like an “It’s Party Time!” celebrity.
Let them jump into plastic pools like Hansbrough did. But Hansbrough — a bigger celebrity than anyone on the football team — never needed to go to South Beach, never needed diamond jewelry, and never needed to be taking money from strangers.
As in so many other things, we can learn something from Hansbrough’s example of how scholarship athletes should behave themselves.
The reward for a quality football player’s coming to Carolina should be a full scholarship, a first class education, a chance to improve your athletic skills (possibly to a pro level), and the time of your life. No more than that should be needed, offered, or suggested. Indeed, they should be told point-blank in recruiting that that’s the deal, no more. If it isn’t enough, fine, we’ll do without them.
UNC wanted to be a player in football, and brought in top talented players that chose UNC over other established programs… Thats what started this whole mess.
^rathskellar68 -
I agree with everything you wrote 100%… but not as long as Butch Davis is still the football coach. People will still know that our basketball, and other teams, win the right way but they won’t say it out loud because if they do people will immediately ask “what about the football team?”. As long as Butch Davis is our football coach the integrity of our other teams will never get as much of a spotlight as the notoriety of our football team. That hurts me a lot. Why doesn’t it hurt people like Baddour and Thorpe too? That is the most difficult part of all of this for me to understand. Why are Baddour and Thorpe so committed to this guy?
I also don’t see how the on campus culture can change as long as Baddour and Thorpe tacitly embrace (or at least appear to embrace) that culture by retaining the man who’s team is the embodiment of that culture?
I’m not sure why people don’t understand that there is a process to all of this and simply blowing away the football coach and AD is not the best way to go about that. There are buyout considerations, the state of the program, recruiting and various other aspects being considered. Some of you want to detonate a tactical nuke and start over but that might do more damage in the long run than whatever the NCAA hands down.
If I had to guess I say Davis and Baddour ride out the coming season, allow the COI stuff to pass and then after the season ends you see Davis take a job elsewhere. If the COI does not add anything to the report then Davis will be just like Calipari in the sense he never was personally charged with wrongdoing by the NCAA. He will take another job, Baddour will retire and UNC will move on.
^There are other things the University can do to make it so uncomfortable for Davis that he voluntarily resigns without any buyout required. Specifically have the compliance department put him and his program under an unrelenting spotlight. Audit everything they do. Institute some sort of compliance metrics and on a monthly basis make him present to the AD and Chancellor the current compliance status of his program.
Given the fact that he presumably “didn’t know” so much … stuff… was going on in his program, these steps may be necessary anyways in order to avoid a future scandal.
Butch is great at getting players to the pros, but actual coaching not so much
I think the posters who are remorseful about UNC now being “dirty” are a bit naive. I think EVERY major program has violations if you . The fact is, there is NOTHING which indicates that we, or our boosters, were telling recruits “Psst…hey, come to UNC and we’ll give you X, Y and or Z.” That, to me, is the true mark of a dirty program.
The fact is, AT ANY SCHOOL, if a talented kid capable of playing at the next level wants to find someone to give him extra benefits, he will. Period. I don’t care how good your compliance department is. The truth is, we were all singing the praises of the character of many of these players when they chose to return to college instead of jumping pro, so you just never know… True, I wish Blake had never been affiliated with the University, but not to the point where I’m crying into my beer about it…
“The fact is, AT ANY SCHOOL, if a talented kid capable of playing at the next level wants to find someone to give him extra benefits, he will”
Does every school have an assistant coach who will put that kid in touch with the someone who will give him extra benefits?
THAT’S the difference between what happened at UNC and what is (according to you) happening at any school… and its a BIG difference.
850 we are on the same boat. The rationalization of this scandal from UNC fans is comical. Oh its happens at every school, we’re not as bad as OSU. Stop it, this is terrible news, and worse we cant even win an ACC championship while cheating.
Carolina football is a dirty program, and we’ll take years to rebuild its imagine. Time to take off the Carolina Blue blinders. We had tutors writing players papers, paid for parking tickets, had players receive jewerly, and had an agents runner on staff.
Apparently no one is reading Tar Heel Fan’s comment. He’s right. Firing Butch doesn’t do any good at this point. And who would replace if he were fired, and don’t say anybody would be better because that just isn’t true. Maybe I’m not willing to “take off the Carolina Blue Blinders” but worrying about the school’s reputation at this point is moot. All we can do as fans as support the school we love going forward and hope those charged with governance will do what is necessary to insure we don’t have these problems in the future.
Side note: I read somewhere that this will most likely lead to a total ban on social media. That is hilarious. Maybe this stuff came to light because of twitter but they won’t go away without it.
UNC isnt going to fire Butch bc they spent all that money on the stadium renovations..
UNC really jumped the gun on that one
^No, not Carolina Blue blinders. Butch gets to have his own shade of Blue… in addition to getting a raise and contract extension after winning four whole games and in addition to immunity from the major scandal took place on his watch and in addition to having overwhelming support from the fan base because he can win 8 whole games (but can’t beat NC State, get a BCS bowl bid or even win all but one of the 3rd rate bowls he did get invited too, or ever finish in the top 25, or ever win his division in the ACC…) But we still support Butch! /smh
On the other hand, I’m not sure I want Butch’s team to wear UNC’s colors anymore anyways…
You are also absolutely correct that the $70M stadium renovation is part of the anchor that keeps Butch attached to the University.
But there is another factor out there too. The fear of letting Dick Baddour botch yet another hire. Every coach he’s hired has somehow managed to be even worse then the previous (bad) coach he hired. Torbush, then Bunting, now Butch … throw in DOH and you have a very rational fear that as bad as things are now letting Dick Baddour have another crack at it might actually make things even worse…
No, it was absolutely not worth it. We can excuse Butch all we want, but the fact remains that NCAA troubles came with him. And, Roy makes sure he avoid thus kind of crap by recruiting kids of excellent character. That obviously has not happened with the football program.
Roy recruits only kids of excellent character, absolutely correct.
Well, except for Larry Drew… and Will Graves… and the Wear Twins… but yeah, other than those guys, Roy only recruits kids of excellent character.
“We had tutors writing players papers, paid for parking tickets, had players receive jewerly, and had an agents runner on staff.”
One tutor who assisted on papers for two players. Don’t be like an ABCers(or the national media) and make it something its not. That same tutor via an apparent personal relationship she developed with Greg Little then paid for his parking tickets and a plane ticket. Just note, this is one person who behaved badly, who was told when she took the job how to behave and when it was apparent she was too close to the players was let go by UNC.
Let’s also understand, hiring Davis was not a mistake when it happened. There was no reason to believe hiring Davis would bring this kind of garbage in and while Blake had a nefarious reputation yet the NCAA told UNC he had zero red flags. So yes, it was a huge mistake by Davis but he is not the first coach to make it, unfortunately he made it in Chapel Hill and not somewhere else.
Character and attitude are two different things. Character speaks to integrity i.e. will they follow the rules, etc, etc. Attitude speaks to work ethic, reactions during games, interaction with teammates. At the time Graves was recruited nothing was out of line in terms of his character. While at UNC he smoked some pot(which is not that unusual among college students) and got caught. End of story. Drew was selfish and the Wears were a bit too sheltered by mommy and daddy.
In short, only Graves ended up funning afoul of the rules and even that was something many college students do and some people think should be legal.
Blake left Oklahoma U in an NCAA mess after his tenure as HC. He left the Dallas Cowboys as an assistant persona non grata. He played for Switzer at the height of Switzer’s disregard for NCAA rules. He coached for Switzer and Jackie Sherrill.
I knew he was trouble the minute he was hired, and I gave Baddour and Davis the benefit of the doubt relative to their ability to keep him in line. They didn’t.
We just can’t get around the fact that someone besides Blake and Wiley just blew it here. Too many players broke rules that they knew they were breaking. I’m not saying someone in a position of authority must have known. I am saying someone in that position failed to make sure enough kids cared.
” If the head coach sets a proper tone of compliance and monitors the activities of all assistant coaches in the sport, the head coach cannot be charged with the secretive activities of an assistant bent on violating NCAA rules.”
Question. If the head coach is monitoring the activities of said assistant coach, then how in the blue hell could the Austin stuff with Wichard be “secretive”? And I don’t think Blake was bent on violating NCAA rules. He was bent on making some extra scratch and getting top talent to come play for him.
I think the renovations are the sole reason that Davis is still employed at UNC-CH. There would be no buyout, I do not think, because of that special clause in his contract about infractions under his watch. Maybe the wording is such that he is all good there, I’m not sure. Riddle me this, however. Why would there be such a clause needed to begin with if there was never any reason to think that Davis might be in bed with some shady characters or activities?
Also, on Blake, I think the NCAA knows that if messed up by giving the “all clear” to UNC-CH on his hiring. That is why there is no FTM in regards to him, IMO.
And then there is this. When was the academic misconduct discovered? Was it during NCAA investigator’s interviews with players, or during UNC-CH interviews?
I’m not poking the bear here, or trying to rub salt in any wounds. Just giving some food for thought from an outside perspective and get some clarity on some angles.
Not poking a bear, but the State fans still worship a guy who as Head B-ball coach and subsequently AD, oversaw a program that was convicted by the NCAA of Lack of Institional Control. Now, you guys like to talk about “shoes and tickets” which by the way amounted to hundreds of thousands of dollars. In addition to “shoes and tickets” the worshippers fail to mention the complete academic fraud that clearly existed for over 10 YEARS.
So if some UNC folks want to give the benefit of doubt to Coach Davis, so be it. I can guarantee he won’t be worshipped.
I don’t think the NCAA would have said there were no red flags associated with Blake. Rather they probably just said that there are currently no NCAA violations that his name is attached too. What they probably can’t legally say is “but we still suspect he is as dirty as ______” … they can just state whether or not they ever found any hard evidence that he committed infractions.
Another classic irrelevant response from good old HP. But you know, Butch would have to win something to be worshiped like V, right? Last time I checked, by the way, it is not just State Fan that “worships” V, thus all the Jimmy V stuff you see every single year. #StopBeingTerrible #SorryForRespondingToTheTroll
Low ball on the Jimmy V comment, having a mother that survived cancer, i feel that he deserves all the “worship” that he gets.
Question to state fan, why would you let your best QB since Rivers leave bc your unknown QB cried about transfering if he didnt start. Sounds very Larry Drewish. You’ll be regretting that decision this fall.
Wayne, TOB really had no choice but to cut ties with RW. By the way, as far as I know he still has not decided whether or not to play football this season. Glennon is unproven, yes, but this year is about experience for him to set up for 2012, which is supposed to be a really good team. Sigh. Always playing for next year…
So let me get this straight, if Marvin Austin had one ounce of intelligient discretion about what tweeting really is chances are pretty good that we are not on this topic today. Maybe tomorrow, maybe never. In any case, I still doubt that any BCS program could withstand the scrutiny that ensued at UNC. Any program out there asking the NCAA for an on campus investigation just to see if they are totally in compliance with ALL of the NCAA’s myriad guidelines? I am not dismissing this as an everybody does it happenstance. Some things in the program were too loose and needed tightening. That said, we are not USC and we are not Ohio St. and the sky-blue world is not coming to an end. If you guys want a guaranteed, clean program drop football as a varsity sport and make it a club partcipant. The NCAA does not monitor that level of play.
How you respond to this sort of thing counts for a lot. I think UNC’s effort once the initial issues came to light will be a case study in how to help the NCAA get to the bottom of things, just as how we got here will be a case study in how NOT to do things.
This whole “recruiting better character kids” is a bunch of 20/20 hindsight crap. I bet the ones bemoaning the “character” of these kids that broke the rules were applauding these same kids last spring when they decided to come back.
I look at it this way: if someone is going to break rules, they are going to break rules, regardless of whatever mechanisms are in place to ensure compliance. Certainly, growing up, our parents tried to instill in us virtues of right and wrong; how to act, how to behave. Call it “creating an atmosphere of compliance”, if you will. Now, even with that, did we always, all the time, do the right thing? If you did, then congratulations. I didn’t.
Now, this is not meant to excuse what went on. Violations obviously occurred, and penalties will have to be (and should be) handed out. But all of this “should have known this”, “should have known that” is all being viewed from a lense AFTER the fact. So let me ask this: a lot is being said about tightening up on monitoring, etc. And I agree. But how?Let’s say you are put in charge of the program. What do you do, other than what has already been done and what was already in place, to ensure this doesn’t happen again? And is this plan 100% foolproof? I mean, the sign out sheet, which on its face seems to take care of off campus trips, sure wasn’t, was it?
^The answer is obvious, Oneal. Any and all players in any and all sports at UNC-CH should have to wear ankle bracelets as if they are on house arrest.
“Another classic irrelevant response from good old HP”
Jimmy V died of cancer. I’m sorry. But he was still a liar and a cheater when he was a coach and AD.
So why are comments about him anymore irrelevant than say, the million plus hateful comments made about Butch Davis? Afterall, as a reminder, Butch Davis has cancer. His cancer is in remission and if it reoccurs it will probably kill him. That certainly hasn’t stopped the barrage from HateNation.com
Frankly, I was surprised Butch Davis survived the initial investigation and revelations of wrong-doing from virtually every facet of the program (players, a coach, and even academic support personnel). While admittedly not an expert on the situation, I think it is obvious that Butch made two egregious mistakes - each of which would justify his firing (payout of contract amounts aside):
1. Butch brought in an assistant with a “nefarious reputation”, which it turned out was well-earned — as it appears that John Blake was working for, and receiving money from, an agent prior to and while employed as an assistant head coach. In addition, although I think this evidence is weaker, he may even have been funneling select players to that agent.
Having an assistant coach, much less an assistant HEAD coach, take money from an agent (and possibly funnel players) could destroy a program. In hiring Blake with his checkered past, Butch took a risk not only with the integrity but also the long-term well being of Carolina’s program, and was dead wrong.
2. Butch hired a tutor, who had actually been let go by UNC for developing too cozy a relationship with his football players. Whether this facilitated or played no part in the tutor’s on-going relationship with the players, I cannot say. I can say it was sheer idiocy to keep her in and around the football program (and yes, I consider being employed by the head coach as being in and around the football program). The fact that UNC was right in letting her go - it turns out she was giving improper assistance, and paying over a $1000 in parking tickets - only makes Butch’s decision look all the more assinine.
While the 2 decisions above are clear evidence that running a clean program was not of utmost importance to Butch, the laundry list of academic and improper benefit infractions pretty much seals the deal. IMHO, while a coach can’t prevent a knucklehead player from taking improper help, taking gifts, etc ., a coach’s priorities (e.g., recruiting, hiring, attention to compliance) certainly can make it more or less likely that players will engage in such behavior, or more or less likely that the coaches will become aware of, and correct such behavior, before it rises to the level of major NCAA infractions. As an avid Carolina fan, we have had the privilege of seeing how a coach’s commitment to doing things the right way (Dean) permeate a team’s (and even sports program’s) culture.
Under Butch’s watch, it appears however, at least six players were taking improper benefits (even if some, admittedly, were ridiculous - like sleeping on a former teammeates couch) and another 5 or so were involved in academic fraud. Simply put, Butch wasn’t running the program to the standards Carolina fans have come to expect, and as head coach, the buck stops with him. That these violations were being committed, or enabled, by a tutor he hired (with red flags all over her) or an assistant head coach he hired (with red flags all over him) only exacerbates this fact.
I’m disappointed as an alumnus that we have reached this place, and while I love Carolina sports, allowing them to impugn the University’s reputation, including its academic reputation, is unacceptable. Here’s to next steps, and to all involved making a Herculean effort to restore Carolina’s image.
I understand Butch is with us at least through the penalties being handed down (in the next year or so). After the dust settles, however, we will have to take a long hard look at how best to ensure our University’s reputation moving forward, and whether Butch can be a part of those future plans.
HP, while I enjoy the fact that your blood pressure rises from the mere sight of my moniker, it is a shame that you react the way that you do from a comment like the one that I left. Had I come on here being a complete donkey, it would be one thing. That does not appear to be the case, however. You keep on keeping on, my man.
^Your head basketball coach bang anymore grad students lately? Yeah. I went there.
I can’t type what I want to due to PC issues. No, not computer ones, Raj…
^Oh believe me, that was the cleaned up version of what I had to say. You know that generally speaking I find you to be pretty reasonable, but don’t make statements like this one:
“any and all players in any and all sports at UNC-CH should have to wear ankle bracelets as if they are on house arrest”
and then say:
“Had I come on here being a complete donkey, it would be one thing. That does not appear to be the case, however.”
The Sports idiots got 84 comments about UNC NOI, that says it all….
One day state will worry about being a national power, and not a local college team that just wants to beat UNC.
Raj, I got a good chuckle out of your Gott line. The ankle bracelet line was an obvious joke. If you didn’t realize that, then….
State fans have nothing else to talk about so they come to OUR blog. Go back to the farm!
Speaking of irrelevant arguments, what does your position about the guys staying in school -before any of us knew they were problem players- have to do with the price of tea in China? We all know the answer.
And, last time I checked, Roy’s team is not under investigation.